[Jprogramming] problem matching boxed string

Sat Feb 15 05:05:23 UTC 2014

Looks great.  good decisions on everything, 

a thought for an alternative for strings would be putting 
'<--at start'
'and end    '

this assumes that space is the fill.  a unique colour for text is good for '123'
I'm not completely sure why J doesn't do that already, but if the goal is to not have extra ascii characters in the display, and I am guessing clipboard to text/log files, so perhaps some graphical bookends to a string would let it be copied easily while taking less space?

A simpler style for strings would be to just change the backcolor, so trailing spaces would be visible, and no clipboard issues.

----- Original Message -----
From: robert therriault <bobtherriault at mac.com>
To: Programming forum <programming at jsoftware.com>
Cc: 
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2014 2:36:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Jprogramming] problem matching boxed string

Just to finish the job, here is a link to a video screencast of the display style for the skinnier look. http://wp.me/p1rSg-8x

Cheers, bob

On Feb 12, 2014, at 6:04 PM, robert therriault <bobtherriault at mac.com> wrote:

> Well, I am not sure I would call it a nice example, but I am glad to hear that it does work. 
> 
> I also added a second script that has a 'skinnier' look. Haven't had time to finish a video on that one yet.
> 
> http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/http:/www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/BobTherriault/Visualize?action=AttachFile&do=view⌖=vlitejwiki.ijs
> 
> Cheers, bob
> 
> On Feb 12, 2014, at 4:44 PM, Joe Bogner <joebogner at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> bob, thanks again for sharing. It works really well and is also a nice JHS
>> example.
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 9:08 PM, robert therriault <bobtherriault at mac.com>wrote:
>> 
>>> Thanks Pascal,
>>> 
>>> Believe it or not I did simplify this quite a bit from where I originally
>>> was, based on you previous comments. I'll play around some more to see if I
>>> can slim it down further and still have it intuitive (which is actually one
>>> of the targets that I am aiming for in addition to the 'different things
>>> should display differently')
>>> 
>>> I have attached the script of the simple test page to the wiki at
>>> 
>>> http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/http%3A/www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/BobTherriault/Visualize?action=AttachFile
>>> 
>>> If you want to play.
>>> 
>>> Cheers, bob
>>> 
>>> On Feb 11, 2014, at 9:53 AM, Pascal Jasmin <godspiral2000 at yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I like it.
>>>> 
>>>> I'll restate my preference for simpler css.  Using colour only if boxes
>>> aren't completely necessary (datatype).
>>>> 
>>>> I understand the desire to deal with leading 0 shapes, but I think
>>> leading 1 shapes are what byte people/beginers the most.  For instance
>>> assuming that }. and {: produce identical results with 2 elements.
>>>> 
>>>> So, if there was a way to only box-decorate items when there is a
>>> leading 1 or 0 dimension, I think it would be very helpful without being as
>>> noisy.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: robert therriault <bobtherriault at mac.com>
>>>> To: Programming forum <programming at jsoftware.com>
>>>> Cc:
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 12:14:14 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Jprogramming] problem matching boxed string
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks Raul,
>>>> 
>>>> I am currently working on the boxing display and you are right, it does
>>> present some different challenges. My plan is to have the script on the
>>> wiki for general amusement later this afternoon. I have put this together
>>> as a way to see the results of the language in a way that I found more
>>> useful and it involves a mix of html, css and J, so as far as coding I
>>> think of myself as a hobbyist rather than a pro.
>>>> 
>>>> It should not be hard to change the size of the empty spots and I think
>>> that is a really good idea. The nice thing about CSS is that you can change
>>> appearance across classes, although the complexity can avalanche when you
>>> start to decide how classes will display based on the context of other
>>> classes.
>>>> 
>>>> Anyway, I will post when I have the script up on the jwiki.
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers, bob
>>>> 
>>>> On Feb 11, 2014, at 8:51 AM, Raul Miller <rauldmiller at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> This looks promising.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I currently have two quibbles which you might want to reject:
>>>>> 
>>>>> First, the additional markup seems to get in the way for some typical
>>>>> cases. I can see the need for leading 1 dimensions and embedded zero
>>>>> dimensions. I understand the idea of consistent display of information,
>>> but
>>>>> there's so much going on when arrays have no zeros or ones in their
>>> shape
>>>>> and I can't help but wonder if a reduced complexity presentation might
>>> be
>>>>> nice, at least as a later option?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Second, when there are zeros in the shape, the placeholders are the same
>>>>> size and "shape" (ha ha, get it? shape... eh... maybe you had to be
>>> there)
>>>>> as when data is present. Maybe you could shrink the cell size for empty
>>>>> cells?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I should also probably watch it again for how you display boxed data.
>>> One
>>>>> of my worries is that with so much decoration on "flat" arrays that
>>> boxing
>>>>> will get lost in the noise.
>>>>> 
>>>>> That said, from a user point of view, I can totally imagine wanting to
>>> be
>>>>> able to customize this, and I can also imagine not wanting to touch it
>>> and
>>>>> wanting it to lead me off to some other page that shows me how to reason
>>>>> about it, and I can also imagine wanting to take the data and wanting to
>>>>> play with it and render it in other ways. So I guess also there are
>>> plenty
>>>>> of opportunities for the future.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If I were a manager, though, I might want you to ship it right now, the
>>> way
>>>>> it is.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Fortunately, you don't have to please me. I do not know what I would
>>> want
>>>>> if I were just starting. We need more beginners, and maybe that is
>>>>> something we can do something about, over the next few weeks and months.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Raul
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 10:21 AM, robert therriault
>>>>> <bobtherriault at mac.com>wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Just an update on the visualization of J results.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have done a second video/blog post on using CSS and HTML to display
>>>>>> results on JHS. It provides examples of a system that allows you to
>>>>>> distinguish between 1 $ 1 ,  1 1 $1 , and 1 as well as displaying
>>> arrays
>>>>>> with zeros in the shape such as 0 1 $ 1 and 1 0 $ 1.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Blog post is here:
>>>>>> 
>>> http://bobtherriault.wordpress.com/2014/02/11/using-css-and-html-to-display-the-shapes-of-arrays-on-the-jhs-platform/?relatedposts_exclude=513
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cheers, bob
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2014, at 8:25 AM, robert therriault <bobtherriault at mac.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2014, at 5:29 AM, Raul Miller <rauldmiller at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Of course you will also get an error if you try to combine one of
>>>>>>>> those with another array of the wrong shape. Error conditions are one
>>>>>>>> of the cases where I like getting the shapes of arrays.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sometimes the zeros can affect the result even though they can't be
>>> seen
>>>>>> in the display
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> $ ( 0 2 3 $ 4), 5 7 $5
>>>>>>> 1 5 7
>>>>>>> $ (0 0 2 3 $ 4), 5 7 $5
>>>>>>> 1 1 5 7
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I am looking for ways to give the programmer some 'leverage' into
>>> these
>>>>>> situations by the ways that shapes are displayed
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> One of my favorite tricks, if I am getting an error from an
>>> expression
>>>>>>>> that seems to be due to of a lack of shapeliness (like a length
>>> error)
>>>>>>>> is to replace the last verb with $ (or a variation like ;&$ or $&.>
>>> or
>>>>>>>> ;&($ L:0) or whatever else).
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> And that brings up another issue related to finding the shapes of
>>>>>>>> things: the shape inside a box will typically be different from the
>>>>>>>> shape outside the box (these shapes are "independent" of each other).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Yep, I am working on boxes at the moment and it is a challenge for
>>>>>> display while retaining the independent shape of contents.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Also, the shape of transitory arrays (intermediate results) can also
>>>>>>>> matter. So familiarity with debugging tools and techniques can be
>>>>>>>> crucial - sometimes even more important for coding than familiarity
>>>>>>>> with shape and rank issues. (These are not, properly speaking, a part
>>>>>>>> of the language itself so much as they are a part of the environment.
>>>>>>>> But that's something of a technicality.)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> No doubt. Display can't replace knowing how rank and shape work. I am
>>>>>> hoping that a little better way of displaying results will make it
>>> easier
>>>>>> to see the differences and may emphasize the importance of
>>> understanding
>>>>>> the concepts to those learning the language - that would be me!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cheers, bob
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> For information about J forums see
>>> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm

>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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